Thats why thats where I spend 99% of my time. But I think its a pretty level playing field from the labels for the most part from what weve seen. Are you going to support lossless audio on Apple Music? We had tried to address this constructively. EL: Its somewhere in the middle. EL: I just happened to mention that one, but kidding aside, that is a major problem this issue of cross-subsidization and whether that ought to be considered anti-competitive. PS: We remain open to trying to solve this in other ways. Sonos is making these claims in hopes that Google will just pay them royalties without doing their homework to find they shouldn't. Sonos is a patent troll and has been for a long time now. The patents were illicitly used to . NP: Google spent $9.6 million lobbying in 2021. By the way, they think of themselves as inventors in and of themselves some of my lawyers are actually inventors on patents. PS: I would step back from it and say, we want to make sure that were properly compensated for the inventions, but it is so that we can fuel more innovation, hire more people, create more products. Are you making headphones? Unfortunately, this means your existing speakers will lose a helpful feature, which is never a good thing. Lets start all the way back at the beginning. NP: Obviously you guys have a lot of partnership deals with the platforms the Spotifys and Apples of the world. EL: I think thats just wrong. I want to talk about all of that, as well as how you make decisions to engage that function as part of your companys operations as the CEO and chief legal officer, but we have to ask the Decoder questions first. November 3, 2020. Sonos said Google was violating more than 100 of its patents and proposed a licensing deal to Google. All the music comes from me paying Apple or Spotify or Amazon or potentially paying you for your radio service. Sonos followed up with an additional lawsuit over another five patents in September, specifically those for Google Chromecast Audio and its support for multiroom operations. I love to see the new technology and talk about some of the possibilities, but at the same time, Im really looking for those customer problems to solve. YouTube Music continues to go along. It also does not affect Googles main cash cow, online advertising. Weve been able to pick up some talent we never wouldve been able to before. The system is designed so that those that invent can go and build on those inventions and go create businesses and employ lots of citizens, not for people to simply use their balance sheet to copy and try to destroy other companies. On Friday, a jury said Apple should pay $300 million to Optis for patent infringement. Eddie, I dont know if you want to add anything. Is that to help you make headphones? I guess its a choice, Nilay, at the end of the day, of, are we okay with the ultimate result where it is going to be one or two companies and we all work for those companies and we all buy our stuff from those companies? Theres still nothing like that for certain conversations, discussions, debates just having dinner and lunch and breaking bread together. The Sonos vs Google Disaster Hammers Your Smart Speakers 23,693 views Jan 15, 2022 513 Dislike Share Automate Your Life 122K subscribers Sonos vs Google is getting ugly, and it's likely to. Google vs Sonos: Google says it owns the technology at the centre of the lawsuit. He urged Google to pay a fair royalty to license Sonoss technology. PS: Looking at the experience we were delivering on the radio service, as we looked at the service that we were providing, which was basically a directory of radio stations and those kind of things, one of the teams internally came up and said, Hey, this just doesnt fit with the kind of experience that we deliver. It was done by very smart people trying to help create some guardrails and rules that help build society. Sonos first sued Google in early 2020. The Google lawsuits against Sonos represent only the latest salvo in the drawn-out feud between the companies. As The New York Times notes, the products affected. Weve had three or four waves of innovation here at Sonos. How much time do you spend tending to those partnerships? NP: Lets talk about the actual Google case the patent case. I think people can choose whether to listen or not. Have you changed where youre hiring? I spend a lot of time with my leadership team, both as a group and then one-to-one in terms of working through some of those issues trying to find the best talent, trying to unleash the talent inside the organization, and making those decisions when you have to. And everybody in the smart speaker space is infringing on our intellectual property. Its easy to see on a spreadsheet that investing in engineers and hardware tooling will pay off and generate revenue if you get it right. Then, as I said earlier, its the Sonos story that does the work. We came to the end of the road on constructive conversations. Software patents are contentious in our industry.. Paul Thurrott. How does that begin? I felt that was a good balance for really what we try to do. EL: We havent tried to make a case on cross-subsidization, frankly, because the law on that topic, on predatory pricing over the years the standards become pretty much impossible to meet. NP: But you werent wandering the halls of Sonos saying, I never want to be in a lawsuit, and then you tripped and accidentally sued Google. Sonos began as a disruptive startup in 2005 with its groundbreaking patented innovation in wireless . Jos Castaeda, a Google spokesman, said that the company disagreed with the ruling, but that it would work to ensure there was no disruption in the products used by customers or its ability to sell or import devices. And try to train the organization so that the person closest to the action has the ball on the decision because they will know more than anybody else. U.S. District Court Judge Edward M. Chen granted a motion to dismiss one of the patents used by Google in its countersuit against Sonos on Monday, agreeing with the smart speaker maker that the technology described in the patent in question represented an abstract idea that was "not patent eligible." Nov 20, 2021. In a perfect world, if Ive built the team in such a way that I have leaders that are all better than me in their particular area, what Im doing is trying to support them, guide them, and be a sounding board in terms of making those decisions. 3. While Sonos is one of the most well-known and popular names in the industry, the low-cost approach taken by Amazon and Google has placed additional pressure on Sonos In the lawsuit, Sonos says that Google used that tech in its own products and undercut Sonos. PS: We really set out an ambition to deliver two new products a year. Beyond my responsibilities as CEO of Sonos is to be watching whats happening a little broader in the industry and notice patterns. Its easier in hindsight to understand that a company has been working on all of these great things. Today, the US International Trade Commission (ITC) has ruled in favor of. The impact of the ruling on Googles business appears limited, because the import ban is likely to have little impact on newer products that use different technologies. Sonos accused. It really is the core of the system and why we can introduce new products that make the system better over time. I actually brought in a second firm to make an independent assessment so that I made sure we werent just drinking our own Kool-Aid about the strength of our portfolio. As cynical as I am by dint of being a lawyer, I am enough of an optimist that I really believe, in this case, narrative is going to win. So they werent surprised when I came to them, because they knew I felt like it wasnt heading in a constructive direction. Smart-speaker firm Sonos has won a major legal battle against Google over patents it said the firm had infringed. The ruling follows a lawsuit Sonos filed in January 2020, alleging that the search giant stole its technology when the two companies partnered to make sure Google's music service worked well with . Key decisions are things like who you hire and where you point the organization. After Google lost an earlier patent case over speaker volume controls, Google is now suing Sonos over voice control technology. Is that siloed? NP: 26. This might be the only business podcast where anyone ever asks this question. It seems like Google did not want that to happen. I get that part. NP: We have spent a lot of time talking about Google thats obviously who youre suing. Im keeping the board up to date on our partnerships, our conversations with all of our key partners as we go through this, and kind of where we are. Weve always found in history that its dangerous to have all that power in just a few hands. On Saturday, a judge ruled that Google . Thats the key: a problem no one else has solved before that you solve in a unique way. NP: Whereas Apple can just wave away a zero margin. Im super proud of the team. The lawsuits are in part a. PS: Were watching the whole Web3 area to see what its impact on music and the industry will be at this point. Being transparent with our partners was key. Googles going to say that these patents are invalid or that theyre not infringing. Its that combination of expertise and relationship, because the relationships crucial. "With its update," the lawsuit states, "Sonos acted by force to limit consumer choice instead of competing lawfully, based upon the quality and servicing of its devices." The plaintiff says that after both of his CR100 controllers failed, the devices displayed a message directing him to www.sonos.com/cr100, which states, in part: At that point, I think we were releasing one product over the past couple of years and kind of haphazardly. You mentioned hardware. How are we working as a team together? For me, the real test with Web3, blockchain, all of these areas, is, whats been built that solves a customer problem in a better way?. In January 2020, Sonos filed two lawsuits against Google, claiming that the latter stole its multiroom speaker technology and infringed on 100 patents. We also have Eddie Lazarus, the chief legal officer at Sonos. Turn on the TV with your voice using the Google Assistant on Sonos Beam. They almost died in 2020 when they bricked their legacy products. Were not seeing a great resignation. Eddie just shot you a look. I think theyve gone through a long road here a journey of discovery on what it means to be the programmer. Eddie Lazarus, the chief legal officer at Sonos, told The New York Times, "We appreciate that the ITC has definitively validated the five Sonos patents at. We have a really great culture. We need someone whos really going to appreciate and understand the nature of our business and then apply all the appropriate legal principles a person or a team that I have a lot of faith in. NP: See, you start doing the lawsuits. We had a fantastic discussion and debate about the pros and cons. Youre in that situation. Set your Nest thermostat or dim your Philips Hue lights using your voice. For us, its just a straight policy matter and one where we think our relationship with the big tech companies is a good example of why there should be some modernization and exactly what that modernization should be. Thats a big decision youre now in the content business. Youve taken them to court. I just havent seen the technology yet applied in a way that theres an aha! moment for consumers. We get sued by trolls not infrequently, but solving that by undermining the value of innovation is really not the way to go about it. Sonos had no further comment at time of publication. And its the right thing for tech more generally to take them on.. Sonos (SONO) alleges that Google (GOOG) stole its technology for creating a system of. PS: Thats right. Between partnerships, thinking about blockchain, looking at the products, and dealing with me asking for Atmos support I take up a lot of your minutes how do you say, Im going to go spend my time on this. Big Tech giants Apple and Google both lost patent lawsuits this week. We appreciate that the I.T.C. It is an evergreen investment. Patrick Spence and Eddie Lazarus from Sonos. This category accounted for 18 percent of Alphabets revenue in the third quarter, which ended in September. I would go acquire some MP3s from wherever I acquired them from ideally legally. With two lawsuits, Google is retaliating against Sonos, claiming that the wireless speaker manufacturer is violating a number of its patents related to smart speakers and voice control technologies. If Im doing both of those things, this is part of it standing up for our people, and the fact that we are inventing things here. We want to create something that were more proud of as an organization.. So far, thats been the learning as well okay, people will listen to both. Then the fact that I knew we had invented the space and the category. Sonos filed two lawsuits against the internet giant, alleging violations of other patents as well. NP: I think that is true for many of us. The patent battle between Sonos and Google just went in the speaker maker's favor, with a final ruling finding that Google imported and sold products that infringed . NP: Thats actually interesting because you litigated some of those patents before with Denon. John Deere now employs more software engineers than tractor mechanical engineers, which is utterly surprising if you think about it. Thats the right thing from the overall spirit of what were trying to do. Sonos filed a patent infringement lawsuit against Google at the beginning of last year. It got to a point where I didnt feel it was constructive anymore and we needed to take action to both stand up for both consumers, in terms of having that ability to use this concurrently because weve shown we can do that, and ourselves as well. EL: I pick lawyers, not law firms. The lawsuit alleges that Google . We have a ton of runway for growth and were in a good position. Then were just thoughtful about what it says about Sonos based on the artists that were bringing onto the platform. Weve just moved faster, quite frankly. Previously you have said, Well, we cant sue them both. Are the conversations there different? January 7, 2022. It is not right if somebodys just going to copy what you make and try to underprice you and try to drive companies out of the space. We have over 1,000 patents. It reflects on us, of course, just like any of the other platforms choices reflect on the company. Sonos has a kind of a central role in all that as one of the very few choice-oriented OSs. All of that is kind of the guiding light for where we need to go and how I spend my time, quite frankly. One is strategy. In response, Google had to change how some of its speakers worked, including reducing some functionality. Google is, of course, appealing, but you just dont see this very often. The International Trade Commission said that it would review parts of a judge's findings in the Sonos patent infringement case against Google. Back in January of last year, a smart speaker company by the name of Sonos initiated a lawsuit against Google, accusing it of stealing original features for its own speakers. Its not just been one set of choices, weve done it twice. One of the things were advocating for on Capitol Hill is that they actually make some adjustments to the standard to modernize the law. Patents before with Denon between the companies a central role in all that in. 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